Economy, Republicans IMF: GOP Playing With The Debt Ceiling Leads To Global Instability
June 17,2011 
The Republican party is attempting to play games with the debt ceiling, even though they know it has to be raised. The IMF has taken notice:
In the United States, the political problems include a fight over raising the debt ceiling. Fears that the world’s biggest economy could default, even briefly, have rattled markets, with Fitch Ratings saying even a “technical” default would jeopardize the country’s AAA rating.
The problem is, in the last decade the Republican party has shown us time and time again that when push comes to shove they will always choose party over country.
The Republican party is attempting to play games with the debt ceiling, even though they know it has to be raised. The IMF has taken notice:
In the United States, the political problems include a fight over raising the debt ceiling. Fears that the world’s biggest economy could default, even briefly, have rattled markets, with Fitch Ratings saying even a “technical” default would jeopardize the country’s AAA rating.
The problem is, in the last decade the Republican party has shown us time and time again that when push comes to shove they will always choose party over country.
It truly is amazing how Oliver can skip the very first sentence of an article:
Nothing wrong with reducing deficits. Collect the corporate tax we’re owed, cut wasteful military spending.
But Dick Cheney says deficits don’t matter!
And in OliverWorld, do corporations just sit there and take it? Or do they pass the costs on to consumers? How does that affect inflation concerns and are consumers able to afford the new cost of goods?
Then clearly you’re going to vote Republican in 2012: their credo is “Nore More Than 2 Wars at a time”, unlike the guy in there now.
And if you do all that, we’re STILL looking at a deficit 3X the size of Bush’s largest deficit.
He actually said $400 million deficits don’t matter. $1.6 trillion? Whole other animal…
PS: Cheney’s responsed with the quote you cite when he was arguing against a prediction that economy would turn south in 2003/2004. History has proven Cheney correct.
SaveFarris says: “…”
Save, you are an idiot and every time you talk you make the world a worse place to live in.
Raising corporate tax rates will improve the economy. Right now the massive multinational corporations are earning record profits and are sitting on record cash reserves. Taxing profits will encourage them to reinvest their profits instead of losing them in taxes. Reinvesting their profits means hiring more people. Hiring more people means there will be more potential costumers. Which means the economy as a whole grows.
Right now they are not doing this, because the people in charge of these massive corporations have no skin in the game. If they steal billions of dollars in profits and hand it over to themselves and their friends as bonuses, but the corporation suffers in the long term, it doesn’t matter, because they’ve already stolen the money and after the government bail-out, they will get to keep that money.
How much FAIL can be packed in a single paragraph? CSS shows us:
* Your answer for grabbing a piece of those “record cash reserves” is to tax profits? Anyone who knows the difference between “income” and “net worth” finds your plan hillarious.
* They’re sitting on cash reserves because there’s no incentive to invest. They can’t start new business ventures because they have no idea what regulatory nightmares Obama will implement on a whim and run them out of business after they’ve sunk costs. And they won’t hire because, thanks to Obamacare, the cost of hiring a new employee is no longer worth the potential profit that employee might bring.
* Raising taxes? Not as big an incentive as you believe. In fact, even noted Harvard graduates think raising taxes would be a bad idea:
* We’re already #1 in Corporate tax rate. How much higher can you raise it without companies decamping to business-friendlier shores?
Ho-hum. Another day, another post from Farris in which he opines that deficits can ONLY be resolved through spending cuts. And another day passes in which Farris fails to say just what spending he wants to cut.
Go ahead, Farris. Roll out your usual response: “We can start by rolling back spending to (insert year) levels!”
Of course, while the rest of us live here in 2011 and anticipate that clocks and calendars will continue marking our passage into the future, you’re welcome to pretend that we can wish our way back to some arbitrary moment in the past. Go for it!
Republican in 2012: their credo is “Nore More Than 2 Wars at a time”
Codswallop!
He actually said $400 million deficits don’t matter.
Wrong again.
Sorry Quaker, what was the deficit in 2002 when Cheney made his remark?
It wasn’t $400 million you idiot.
It should also, be noted that when Cheney made that comment he was defending a budget proposal that would have lead to a $500 billion budget deficit:
Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill was told “deficits don’t matter” when he warned of a looming fiscal crisis.
SaveFarris: “* Your answer for grabbing a piece of those “record cash reserves” is to tax profits? Anyone who knows the difference between “income” and “net worth” finds your plan hillarious.”
You truly are illiterate. They have record cash reserves because they are not reinvesting their profits. By taxing their profits, they will be encourage to reinvest instead of save. I never said taxing profits will be, “grabbing a piece of those ‘record cash reserves’. That’s just something you made up because you can’t defend your position.
“* They’re sitting on cash reserves because there’s no incentive to invest. They can’t start new business ventures because they have no idea what regulatory nightmares Obama will…”
This is just a fucking lie.
“* Raising taxes? Not as big an incentive as you believe. In fact, even noted Harvard graduates think raising taxes would be a bad idea:
“You don’t raise taxes in a recesson.””
And I have a Nobel Prize winning economist on my side. By the way, you also don’t cut spending during a recession.
“* We’re already #1 in Corporate tax rate.”
Another lie.
“How much higher can you raise it without companies decamping to business-friendlier shores?”
Simple. Tell companies that if they set up shot overseas, they will still be taxed on business they do within the United States.
Sorry Quaker, what was the deficit in 2002 when Cheney made his remark?
I don’t care if it was four cents or forty brazillian dollars. The statement attributed to him was unqualified. You can’t just add a qualifier onto his statement and pretend that’s what he said or that’s what he meant.
We call that “making stuff up.”
Anyone who knows the difference between “income” and “net worth” finds your plan hillarious.”
And anyone who knows the difference between “million” and “billion” finds your comment point-and-laugh worthy.
Here’s what you wrote, Farris:
He actually said $400 million deficits don’t matter.
That is not what he said. If you possessed even an atom of intellectual honesty, you could argue that what Cheney said about what was at that time a record deficit should not apply to a larger deficit. But you didn’t do that–you tried to tell us that Mr. Cheney said something he didn’t.
Making. Stuff. Up.
By taxing their profits, you discourage profit-making activity. Again, just what we need in the middle of a recession-like economy!
Tell that to the people of South Carolina, who would have jobs TODAY if Obama wasn’t standing in the way of Boeing building a factory. Tell that to oil rigs workers in the Gulf who would have jobs TODAY if Obama wasn’t illegally slow-rolling the permit process.
Hey, my guy won a Nobel Prize too! Plus, he isn’t on record as saying $400 Billion deficits are unconscionable but $1.6 Trillion deficits are too low: MUST SPEND MORE!!!
Sorry, I guess Japan didn’t go through with their scheduled tax reduction. WE’RE #2! WE’RE #2!. The point remains that we have little if any room to increase rates without scaring off business.
Meanwhile, all that business they USED to do here isn’t getting done, slowing the economy and lowering tax collections.
Brilliant job, Quaker, absolutely brilliant. Stagflation will be here in no time! And we’ll have you, Oliver, and Obama to thank for it.
Brilliant job, Quaker, absolutely brilliant. Stagflation will be here in no time! And we’ll have you, Oliver, and Obama to thank for it.
I’ll take that as admission that I am correct.
Wait a minute Obama is standing in the way of Boeing building a plant? Show your work.
Don’t run from this thread the way you run from
the one where you said that Clinton sent the CIA after Republicansevery thread you’ve ever posted to.Again, show your work.
SaveFarris says: “By taxing their profits, you discourage profit-making activity.”
Wrong. By taxing PROFITS, it discourages hoarding income as profits and encourages reinvesting that money into the company. No successful entrepreneur every said, ‘I would rather earn no profit than earn $1 profit and give half of that to the government.’ However, many have said, ‘I would rather take this $1 in profit and reinvest in my company rather than give it out in dividends and be taxed 50 cents.’
Me: “This is just a fucking lie.”
SaveFarris: “Tell that to the people of South Carolina, who would have jobs TODAY if Obama wasn’t standing in the way of Boeing building a factory. Tell that to oil rigs workers in the Gulf who would have jobs TODAY if Obama wasn’t illegally slow-rolling the permit process.”
I’ll just ask you to answer Enlightened Liberal request.
Me: “And I have a Nobel Prize winning economist on my side.”
SaveFarris: “Hey, my guy won a Nobel Prize too! Plus, he isn’t on record as saying $400 Billion deficits are unconscionable but $1.6 Trillion deficits are too low: MUST SPEND MORE!!!”
You are a fucking idiot. How have you not accidentally killed yourself with a spoon?
When times are good, you need to reduce your deficit to pay down the debt. You certainly don’t do things that will increase the deficit and hurt the economy, which is what the Republicans did.
On the other hand, when the economy comes to a crashing halt due to stupid Republicans, you have to spend to get your way out of the slump. You don’t start slashing spending when jobs are the number one priority.
What the government should do with regards to the economy depends on what state the economy is in. Is inflation high or low? Are interest rates high or low? Are jobs plentiful or scare? Is GDP growth high or low? What is the bond market doing?
It’s a complicated issue and anyone says there’s one solution for every situation, they are either wrong or lying.
Unfortunately, it is too complicated for someone as dumb as you to understand.
SaveFarris: “We’re already #1 in Corporate tax rate.”
Me: “Another lie.”
SaveFarris: “Sorry, I guess Japan didn’t go through with their scheduled tax reduction. WE’RE #2! WE’RE #2!. The point remains that we have little if any room to increase rates without scaring off business.”
Corporate taxes are at historic lows. Hell, many of the most profitable corporations paid ZERO taxes and in fact got money from the government.
Me: “Tell companies that if they set up shop overseas, they will still be taxed on business they do within the United States.”
SaveFarris: “Meanwhile, all that business they USED to do here isn’t getting done, slowing the economy and lowering tax collections.”
It’s a shame your parents didn’t smother you in your sleep.
Where are they going to go? Where are these companies going to go to find costumers? Are they going to start selling $1000 TV to the billion people living on $1 a day? The United States as the consumer base, so that’s where the companies will go. At least it will till the Republicans succeed in gutting the middle class.
That’s what so amazing. The Republican leadership are attacking people like you, yet you are cheering them while they do so.
He’ll either a. ignore it and start in on another thread or b. post links that prove just the opposite. Not sure where my money is on this one.
Save, why do you want the U.S. to go bankrupt? Why do you hate America?
* They’re sitting on cash reserves because there’s no incentive to invest. They can’t start new business ventures because they have no idea what regulatory nightmares Obama will implement on a whim and run them out of business after they’ve sunk costs. And they won’t hire because, thanks to Obamacare, the cost of hiring a new employee is no longer worth the potential profit that employee might bring.
Oh noes! Obama might say it’s a bad idea to use 19th century pollution control technology! Heaven forbid.
Save, those corporations you’re defending are the ones who screwed up the economy to begin with. So why should we continue to let them do whatever they please? Is this Stockholm Syndrome or just plain old idiocy?
And in SaveFarrisWorld, do ordinary folks just sit there and take personal income taxes? Or do they pass the costs of their lowered income to corporations (and other businesses) by purchasing fewer goods and services, and/or refusing to purchase more expensive items that include the costs of corporate taxes?
Corporate taxes are no more damaging to consumers or corporations than the personal income tax. And the idea that the taxes will be passed on to consumers pre-supposes monopoly price setting power.
I know that it’s a favored talking point – that corporations pass the costs of taxes on *their profits* – which, note, means it does not touch their expenses – to the consumers. It sounds good to someone who isn’t very bright, and/or doesn’t bother to think through its implications.
But it’s still stone-stupid. You’re not clever for “realizing” this – you’re not clever enough to consider it, and toss it aside.
So, at long last, I have my answer. It’s not that you’re dishonest and willing to engage in the most tortured word-twisting and truth-bending imaginable. Its that you really don’t have enough brainpower to figure out the truth, and have to parrot whatever you’re told. You’re another victim of the right-wing noise machine.
SF,
I pay taxes on my business profits, because that is my only income. Even if I incorporated, my tax picture would not change.
Why shouldn’t other businesses pay taxes on their profits?
Repack Rider: “Why shouldn’t other businesses pay taxes on their profits?”
Because SaveFarris’s Republican Overlords tell him if Exxon pays taxes, there will be socialism.
Me: “I’ll just ask you to answer Enlightened Liberal request.”
Enlightened Liberal says: “He’ll either a. ignore it and start in on another thread or b. post links that prove just the opposite. Not sure where my money is on this one.”
It was A.